<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0" xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/" xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/" > <channel><title>Comments on: Web Designers Suck at Semantic Markup!</title> <atom:link href="http://www.chicagostyleseo.com/2009/01/web-designers-suck-at-semantic-markup/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.chicagostyleseo.com/2009/01/web-designers-suck-at-semantic-markup/</link> <description>Chicago Style SEO Blog</description> <lastBuildDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 18:23:16 -0700</lastBuildDate> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6</generator> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <xhtml:meta xmlns:xhtml="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" name="robots" content="noindex" /> <item><title>By: craig</title><link>http://www.chicagostyleseo.com/2009/01/web-designers-suck-at-semantic-markup/comment-page-1/#comment-5429</link> <dc:creator>craig</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 02:33:31 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chicagostyleseo.com/?p=339#comment-5429</guid> <description>@Ryan   Re: Semantic ID and Class naming; I&#039;ve heard this argument so many times before, but I really think it&#039;s a non-issue. Use a descriptive name that works for you. If the column is currently on the right, name it &quot;rightCol&quot; if you want. Makes sense to anyone who is working with the code. If the client suddenly decides the columns need to be flipped, do a simple &quot;find and replace&quot; and POOF, now they are leftCol. How easy is that?!</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ryan   Re: Semantic ID and Class naming; I&#8217;ve heard this argument so many times before, but I really think it&#8217;s a non-issue. Use a descriptive name that works for you. If the column is currently on the right, name it &#8220;rightCol&#8221; if you want. Makes sense to anyone who is working with the code. If the client suddenly decides the columns need to be flipped, do a simple &#8220;find and replace&#8221; and POOF, now they are leftCol. How easy is that?!</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: What is semantic markup and why should web designers use it? &#171; Gaby Tobler</title><link>http://www.chicagostyleseo.com/2009/01/web-designers-suck-at-semantic-markup/comment-page-1/#comment-5399</link> <dc:creator>What is semantic markup and why should web designers use it? &#171; Gaby Tobler</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 19:28:46 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chicagostyleseo.com/?p=339#comment-5399</guid> <description>[...] Designers Suck at Semantic Markup! http://www.chicagostyleseo.com/2009/01/web-designers-suck-at-semantic-markup/ The Motive Web Design Glossary http://www.motive.co.nz/glossary/markup.php RSS [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Designers Suck at Semantic Markup! <a href="http://www.chicagostyleseo.com/2009/01/web-designers-suck-at-semantic-markup/" rel="nofollow">http://www.chicagostyleseo.com/2009/01/web-designers-suck-at-semantic-markup/</a> The Motive Web Design Glossary <a href="http://www.motive.co.nz/glossary/markup.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.motive.co.nz/glossary/markup.php</a> RSS [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Tech Reviews</title><link>http://www.chicagostyleseo.com/2009/01/web-designers-suck-at-semantic-markup/comment-page-1/#comment-3695</link> <dc:creator>Tech Reviews</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 14:40:24 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chicagostyleseo.com/?p=339#comment-3695</guid> <description>Meta description can be useful, since it is the description shown on Googles search pages!Headers are importnat, but I feel they should always be mixed with good CSS coding to ensure good looks with good SEO.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meta description can be useful, since it is the description shown on Googles search pages!</p><p>Headers are importnat, but I feel they should always be mixed with good CSS coding to ensure good looks with good SEO.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Barry Wise</title><link>http://www.chicagostyleseo.com/2009/01/web-designers-suck-at-semantic-markup/comment-page-1/#comment-46</link> <dc:creator>Barry Wise</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 11:19:46 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chicagostyleseo.com/?p=339#comment-46</guid> <description>Nice post, and I&#039;m glad I&#039;m not the only one who feels this way :)Not only is semantic markup useful, it just helps make the code make sense.  Hopefully more designers will pick up on this and start using it more often.Oh, and thanks for linking to my list, keep up the good work!</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post, and I&#8217;m glad I&#8217;m not the only one who feels this way <img src='http://www.chicagostyleseo.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p><p>Not only is semantic markup useful, it just helps make the code make sense.  Hopefully more designers will pick up on this and start using it more often.</p><p>Oh, and thanks for linking to my list, keep up the good work!</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Ben Robinson</title><link>http://www.chicagostyleseo.com/2009/01/web-designers-suck-at-semantic-markup/comment-page-1/#comment-28</link> <dc:creator>Ben Robinson</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 23:43:33 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chicagostyleseo.com/?p=339#comment-28</guid> <description>Again, thanks for the advice.  You should write an article about how internet marketers suck at semantic naming. :PGonna take a gander at those articles and definitely keep this in mind next time I am coding a site.As for the meta descriptions, I would actually keep using them.  Even though Google may choose to ignore them from time to time, without them, you run the risk of a search engine grabbing the completely wrong bit of text to auto insert.It is similar to what you said about the semantic naming - it is a good habit to get into on an ongoing future basis, but if you have hundreds of past pages to tag, it may not be worth the time.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again, thanks for the advice.  You should write an article about how internet marketers suck at semantic naming. <img src='http://www.chicagostyleseo.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /></p><p>Gonna take a gander at those articles and definitely keep this in mind next time I am coding a site.</p><p>As for the meta descriptions, I would actually keep using them.  Even though Google may choose to ignore them from time to time, without them, you run the risk of a search engine grabbing the completely wrong bit of text to auto insert.</p><p>It is similar to what you said about the semantic naming &#8211; it is a good habit to get into on an ongoing future basis, but if you have hundreds of past pages to tag, it may not be worth the time.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Ryan</title><link>http://www.chicagostyleseo.com/2009/01/web-designers-suck-at-semantic-markup/comment-page-1/#comment-27</link> <dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:51:41 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chicagostyleseo.com/?p=339#comment-27</guid> <description>I&#039;d say the main advantages is if you have a sidebar with an id of #rightbar and then in the css you decide to float it left, you also have to change the naming of the id in the HTML. But lets say the content actually comes secondary to the main content in the HTML, you could name it #secondaryContent and then styling can be handled entirely through the CSS without any further editing required in the HTML.The aim is to keep your markup flexible by describing the content regardless of how the site may look. Think about the HTML as if there was no such thing as presentational style, how would you name each element in a way that makes sense?As you can probably guess on complex or low cost sites this can become time consuming and complex, so I&#039;d keep it as something to think about for future sites and implement as and where you can.Andy Clarke of http://www.stuffandnonsense.co.uk/ and http://forabeautifulweb.com/ has spoken and written about semantic markup and labeling (probably not the right term, identifying maybe?) in the past. You may like to check out his book http://transcendingcss.com/ he&#039;s very much into semantic markup.I completely support what you&#039;re saying in the article though... and I seem to have missed out bits of your article on my first read through (while at work which may explain it), so sorry if my commented came across as a bit odd.I&#039;m interested in what you say about not requiring a meta description, I&#039;ve always included one and never really thought about whether it&#039;s really used by search engines. I think I&#039;ll leave it off my next site and see how things go in Google.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d say the main advantages is if you have a sidebar with an id of #rightbar and then in the css you decide to float it left, you also have to change the naming of the id in the HTML. But lets say the content actually comes secondary to the main content in the HTML, you could name it #secondaryContent and then styling can be handled entirely through the CSS without any further editing required in the HTML.</p><p>The aim is to keep your markup flexible by describing the content regardless of how the site may look. Think about the HTML as if there was no such thing as presentational style, how would you name each element in a way that makes sense?</p><p>As you can probably guess on complex or low cost sites this can become time consuming and complex, so I&#8217;d keep it as something to think about for future sites and implement as and where you can.</p><p>Andy Clarke of <a href="http://www.stuffandnonsense.co.uk/" rel="nofollow">http://www.stuffandnonsense.co.uk/</a> and <a href="http://forabeautifulweb.com/" rel="nofollow">http://forabeautifulweb.com/</a> has spoken and written about semantic markup and labeling (probably not the right term, identifying maybe?) in the past. You may like to check out his book <a href="http://transcendingcss.com/" rel="nofollow">http://transcendingcss.com/</a> he&#8217;s very much into semantic markup.</p><p>I completely support what you&#8217;re saying in the article though&#8230; and I seem to have missed out bits of your article on my first read through (while at work which may explain it), so sorry if my commented came across as a bit odd.</p><p>I&#8217;m interested in what you say about not requiring a meta description, I&#8217;ve always included one and never really thought about whether it&#8217;s really used by search engines. I think I&#8217;ll leave it off my next site and see how things go in Google.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Ben Robinson</title><link>http://www.chicagostyleseo.com/2009/01/web-designers-suck-at-semantic-markup/comment-page-1/#comment-26</link> <dc:creator>Ben Robinson</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 20:16:31 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chicagostyleseo.com/?p=339#comment-26</guid> <description>Ryan, Good catch and thanks for the advice.  I take full responsibility for this site&#039;s semantic naming suckiness.Out of curiosity, are there practical advantages to semantic naming vs presentational?  My natural instinct would be to lean toward presentational to help with coding and updating and all that...</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryan,<br /> Good catch and thanks for the advice.  I take full responsibility for this site&#8217;s semantic naming suckiness.</p><p>Out of curiosity, are there practical advantages to semantic naming vs presentational?  My natural instinct would be to lean toward presentational to help with coding and updating and all that&#8230;</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Ryan</title><link>http://www.chicagostyleseo.com/2009/01/web-designers-suck-at-semantic-markup/comment-page-1/#comment-25</link> <dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:33:18 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chicagostyleseo.com/?p=339#comment-25</guid> <description>Assuming this site was marked up by yourself, if not then ignore that in relation to you. :)</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Assuming this site was marked up by yourself, if not then ignore that in relation to you. <img src='http://www.chicagostyleseo.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Ryan</title><link>http://www.chicagostyleseo.com/2009/01/web-designers-suck-at-semantic-markup/comment-page-1/#comment-24</link> <dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:32:20 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chicagostyleseo.com/?p=339#comment-24</guid> <description>All good advice I would consider pretty much standard, but there are many out there who don&#039;t know it so no harm in repeating. However you &quot;suck&quot; at semantic id and class naming ;)Some examples: #content_box, #left_box, #side_wrapper, #side_top... box, left, side, top are all presentational references and don&#039;t relate to the content they are associated with. You should aim for semantic naming such as #secondary_content, #contact_details, #adverts etc that describe their contents rather than the presentation.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All good advice I would consider pretty much standard, but there are many out there who don&#8217;t know it so no harm in repeating. However you &#8220;suck&#8221; at semantic id and class naming <img src='http://www.chicagostyleseo.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p><p>Some examples: #content_box, #left_box, #side_wrapper, #side_top&#8230; box, left, side, top are all presentational references and don&#8217;t relate to the content they are associated with. You should aim for semantic naming such as #secondary_content, #contact_details, #adverts etc that describe their contents rather than the presentation.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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